SGarza.ServiceLearning History

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'''Yvette E.'''
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A: Yvette
From reading the chapter, I would have to say that yes, service learning is a good idea. It is a good practice to promote and perform in the educationational setting for several reasons.
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A: From reading the chapter, I would have to say that yes, service learning is a good idea. It is a good practice to promote and perform in the educationational setting for several reasons.
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Q: Is service learning a good idea?
A: Yvette
From reading the chapter, I would have to say that yes, service learning is a good idea. It is a good practice to promote and perform in the educationational setting for several reasons.
The first reason that service learning is a good things is that is brings the students into the community. A lot of the students I teach have no sense of community, no role models to teach them the importance of giving back to your community and culture. With a pedagogy that implements programs that are focused and working with the community and service towards the community, I think it would finally allow them a reason and initiative to care. It can not hurt anyone or anything to begin using at least some of the principles and characteristics of the service-learning pedagogy.
not stating that one must fully conduct a classroom in a community-service enviroment, but if a teacher tried to simply make one of her major assignments/lesson plans centered around these ideas, it would not draw too much energy and attention from the other pedagogies. In one of my classes in college we had to do some sort of community service that required us to write and benefit from our writing services. I wrote a brochure for one of the local museums, and it really did mean a lot to them and me. It is now published, and can be picked up at the entrance to their museum.
Another reason I think that service learning is a good thing, plus an interesting perspective on this reading is its ironic correleation with President recent address to Congress. In his address, he focuses on education and the horrible national dropout rate of high school students. He alludes to a student dropping out: 's not just quitting on yourself, it's quitting on your country and this country needs and values the talents of every American. Thus, it is not their national duty, national service duty to their country to graduate from high school, to get a better degree, to better themselves in order to truly help their country and community out in a more global perspective.
This ties into another idea, the St. Law School follows the Marianisma pedagogy. Which is the female counterpart to the machismo ideology. Instead, of demanding everything to be done and given to them, the marianisma ideology is the giving side, the side that allows the male counterpart to remain a persistent element. Thus, for the law school, they teach their students that the most important thing about aquiring and education is to give back to your community. That one should use their education for a good cause; such as community serive. Therefore, why not start this at a younger age, why should we just leave this ideology to just be promoted in the utmost and highest educational foundations. Why not in the high school classrooms? I think these students would benefit from this pedagogy just as much as the law students.
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These are the pros and cons as I saw them in this essay and I agree that service learning may have its benefits because of its connection with social change and community involvement, but that is only and opinion.
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These are the pros and cons as I saw them in this essay and I agree that service learning may have its benefits because of its connection with social change and community involvement, but that is only an opinion.
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*Since I have elected to take several service learning classes, I believe that they should be taught as electives. I think "Grant Writing" is a very valuable skill, and that it is worth my time as a student. I do agree that students should be allowed to make their own decisions as to what they might research and then choose to work on. For example, this semester, I researched several organizations that needed a grant written for funding. I decided on the "Boys and Girls Club of Corpus Christi." One of the deciding factors in my decision is that the great track record of the club, and the fact that some of the alumni have made an impact on the community. Joe Adame is currently running for mayor of Corpus Christi and Al Gonzales has donated buildings for the underserved in the community. I have learned "real world writing" and it is just as valuable as scholarly writing. I always feel challenged by both types of writing, but even more so by technical writing because I have to economize my thoughts/words to a fine degree rather than expand my thesis in a literature research paper. Both have value, and as I do not think that service learning pedagogy should be part of a freshman writing class, it is fine as an upper level one. But then, after reading Dr. Cardenas' article on "Creating an Identity," (she combines critical pedagogy with service learning pedagogy) and I see why she says her students get fired up by the projects that they work on. There is a place for service learning, but it is more important for students to master scholarly before they are intoduced to it. This is just my humble opinion!
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*Since I have elected to take several service learning classes, I believe that they should be taught as electives. I think "Grant Writing" is a very valuable skill, and that it is worth my time as a student. I do agree that students should be allowed to make their own decisions as to what they might research and then choose to work on. For example, this semester, I researched several organizations that needed a grant written for funding. I decided on the "Boys and Girls Club of Corpus Christi." One of the deciding factors in my decision is the great track record of the club, and the fact that some of the alumni have made an impact on the community. Joe Adame is currently running for mayor of Corpus Christi and Al Gonzales has donated buildings for the underserved in the community. I have learned "real world writing" and it is just as valuable as scholarly writing. I always feel challenged by both types of writing, but even more so by technical writing because I have to economize my thoughts/words to a fine degree rather than expand my thesis in a literature research paper. Both have value, and as I do not think that service learning pedagogy should be part of a freshman writing class, it is fine as an upper level one. But then, after reading Dr. Cardenas' article on "Creating an Identity," (she combines critical pedagogy with service learning pedagogy) I see why she says her students get fired up by the projects that they work on, but her classes are 3000 level + classes. There is a place for service learning, but it is more important for students to master scholarly before they are intoduced to it. This is just my humble opinion!
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Kathy H -
*Since I have elected to take several service learning classes, I believe that they should be taught as electives. I think "Grant Writing" is a very valuable skill, and that it is worth my time as a student. I do agree that students should be allowed to make their own decisions as to what they might research and then choose to work on. For example, this semester, I researched several organizations that needed a grant written for funding. I decided on the "Boys and Girls Club of Corpus Christi." One of the deciding factors in my decision is that the great track record of the club, and the fact that some of the alumni have made an impact on the community. Joe Adame is currently running for mayor of Corpus Christi and Al Gonzales has donated buildings for the underserved in the community. I have learned "real world writing" and it is just as valuable as scholarly writing. I always feel challenged by both types of writing, but even more so by technical writing because I have to economize my thoughts/words to a fine degree rather than expand my thesis in a literature research paper. Both have value, and as I do not think that service learning pedagogy should be part of a freshman writing class, it is fine as an upper level one. But then, after reading Dr. Cardenas' article on "Creating an Identity," (she combines critical pedagogy with service learning pedagogy) and I see why she says her students get fired up by the projects that they work on. There is a place for service learning, but it is more important for students to master scholarly before they are intoduced to it. This is just my humble opinion!
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In addition, the pilot program discussed in this essay mentions the agency determining the acceptability of the writing project, not the teacher. I agree with this because the agency decide if the writing is acceptable in the academic world; the agency can only decide if the writing fits their needs within the community. I believe the agency should determine if the project is appropriate for them, but the teacher should ultimately determine if the writing is up to the standard it should be for the class.
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In addition, the pilot program discussed in this essay mentions the agency determining the acceptability of the writing project, not the teacher. I agree with this because the agency decide if the writing is acceptable in the academic world; the agency can only decide if the writing fits their needs within the community. I believe the agency should determine if the project is appropriate for them, but the teacher should ultimately determine if the writing is up to the standard it should be for the class.
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'''James'''

On the pro side of things, service pedagogy has the potential of killing two birds with one stone. If done right, it can both provide students with an opportunity to think critically and write reflectively for ''and'' about some community groups, issues and practices that are directly relevant within their community ''and'' help in getting things done in that community. That is the main thing I see going for it.

On the con side of things, I don't think I need to do much more than cite John's response and say that I agree with many aspects of it. I don't know that I would go so far as to say that charity is the opposite of social justice because I can see many good reasons for charity in society.

However, I do not agree that people should be made to give to charity or engage in charity. I do not think that the Have-nots are ''entitled'' to the things that the Haves have earned through hard work or ingenuity, but I also think that if a person has grace and compassion, they will not resent giving away some of their earnings to help those in true need.

We come to the big question then. Is ethical/moral education the job of English studies? I don't think that it is really. I mean there are other classes that exist to deal with this - one which is a required undergrad course, Professional Ethics. Also, there are many other ways by which people attain their ethics and morals.

Another question: is this really only charity? I don't really see it as such. I see it kind of in the same light as pre-service teaching or student teaching. It is a kind of symbiotic relationship between the service-provider (student) and service-recipient (institution or school). In student teaching, the student learns how to interact with students and other members of public school faculty as well as how to teach, but the student is also providing a service to the school and teacher by teaching a class essentially for free. Of course, the student must reflect on these experiences in order to learn from them and ensure his/her progress through student teaching and, consequently, attaining teacher certification in order to do the same job for pay.

In composition, the way I see this working is that a student learns from the experience any number of objectives of their writing course, and the community gets the benefit of free labor. For this to work, the student would learn how to write for whatever group he/she decided to service and would learn composition skills that would help them in that field of their interest. Ideally, this scenario would involve somewhere the student might want to be employed in the future or at least in the same field of their interest or their major.

That said, I don't really see it as very important (in the context of English studies) whether or not the student felt like it was a good thing to help out in the community or if the student was just doing it for a grade. With that said, I don't think any student should be made to do anything like this if they feel that it goes against their beliefs.

In practice, then, this pedagogy might most wisely be used with a great deal of flexibility and student choice.

So, how could this pedagogy be made to work?

I think this pedagogy could work within a syllabus as a choice given to students. If a student is interested in working within the community and agrees with the recipient's ethics/morals, then this could be good for a particular student. In school, we have to be very careful of student's rights (so unlike the real world where people often end up doing things that they do not believe in or may even think are wrong just to make ends meet - or, in the case of some amoral rich people, just to stay wealthy), so this is definitely a kind of pedagogy to be used based on student interest.

There are many different pedagogies to choose from, a variety seemingly corresponding to the variety of students a teacher might encounter over the course of his/her career, and I think the ideal syllabus would offer assignments that reflect the variety of students and pedagogies. That is what student-centered learning is all about. The only agenda a composition teacher really needs to have is for his/her students to write better, and this can be achieved any number of ways by having high standards for things like critical thinking and form as well as substance but also providing students with choices in how they meet those standards.

As with all the prior pedagogies Tate has covered, this one is workable, but it is not a perfect one-size-fits-all pedagogy. There is no such pedagogy because there is no such classroom of students. A good pedagogy recognizes the great variety of individuals that may make up a class, and a good teacher enacts a pedagogy and establishes a syllabus that accounts, as best as it can, for each of those individuals.

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'''James'''

On the pro side of things, service pedagogy has the potential of killing two birds with one stone. If done right, it can both provide students with an opportunity to think critically and write reflectively for ''and'' about some community groups, issues and practices that are directly relevant within their community ''and'' help in getting things done in that community. That is the main thing I see going for it.

On the con side of things, I don't think I need to do much more than cite John's response and say that I agree with many aspects of it. I don't know that I would go so far as to say that charity is the opposite of social justice because I can see many good reasons for charity in society.

However, I do not agree that people should be made to give to charity or engage in charity. I do not think that the Have
-nots are ''entitled'' to the things that the Haves have earned through hard work or ingenuity, but I also think that if a person has grace and compassion, they will not resent giving away some of their earnings to help those in true need.

We come to the big question then. Is ethical/moral education the job of English studies? I don't think that it is really. I mean there are other classes that exist to deal with this
- one which is a required undergrad course, Professional Ethics. Also, there are many other ways by which people attain their ethics and morals.

Another question: is this really only charity? I don't really see it as such. I see it kind of in the same light as pre
-service teaching or student teaching. It is a kind of symbiotic relationship between the service-provider (student) and service-recipient (institution or school). In student teaching, the student learns how to interact with students and other members of public school faculty as well as how to teach, but the student is also providing a service to the school and teacher by teaching a class essentially for free. Of course, the student must reflect on these experiences in order to learn from them and ensure his/her progress through student teaching and, consequently, attaining teacher certification in order to do the same job for pay.

In composition, the way I see this working is that a student learns from the experience any number of objectives of their writing course, and the community gets the benefit of free labor. For this to work, the student would learn how to write for whatever group he/she decided to service and would learn composition skills that would help them in that field of their interest. Ideally, this scenario would involve somewhere the student might want to be employed in the future or at least in the same field of their interest or their major.

That said, I don't really see it as very important (in the context of English studies) whether or not the student felt like it was a good thing to help out in the community or if the student was just doing it for a grade. With that said, I don't think any student should be made to do anything like this if they feel that it goes against their beliefs.

In practice, then, this pedagogy might most wisely be used with a great deal of flexibility and student choice.

So, how could this pedagogy be made to work?

I think this pedagogy could work within a syllabus as a choice given to students. If a student is interested in working within the community and agrees with the recipient's ethics/morals, then this could be good for a particular student. In school, we have to be very careful of student's rights (so unlike the real world where people often end up doing things that they do not believe in or may even think are wrong just to make ends meet
- or, in the case of some amoral rich people, just to stay wealthy), so this is definitely a kind of pedagogy to be used based on student interest.

There are many different pedagogies to choose from, a variety seemingly corresponding to the variety of students a teacher might encounter over the course of his/her career, and I think the ideal syllabus would offer assignments that reflect the variety of students and pedagogies. That is what student-centered learning is all about. The only agenda a composition teacher really needs to have is for his/her students to write better, and this can be achieved any number of ways by having high standards for things like critical thinking and form as well as substance but also providing students with choices in how they meet those standards.

As with all the prior pedagogies Tate has covered, this one is workable, but it is not a perfect one-size-fits-all pedagogy. There is no such pedagogy because there is no such classroom of students. A good pedagogy recognizes the great variety of individuals that may make up a class, and a good teacher enacts a pedagogy and establishes a syllabus that accounts, as best as it can, for each of those individuals.
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Another question: is this really only charity? I don't really see it as such. I see it kind of in the same light as pre-service teaching or student teaching. It is a kind of symbiotic relationship between the service-provider (student) and service-recipient (institution or school). The student learns from the experience any number of objectives of their writing course, and the community gets the benefit of free labor. That said, I don't really see it as very important (in the context of English studies) whether or not the student feels like it is a good thing to help out in the community or if the student is just doing it for a grade. With that said, I don't think any student should be made to do anything like this if they feel that it goes against their beliefs.
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Another question: is this really only charity? I don't really see it as such. I see it kind of in the same light as pre-service teaching or student teaching. It is a kind of symbiotic relationship between the service-provider (student) and service-recipient (institution or school). In student teaching, the student learns how to interact with students and other members of public school faculty as well as how to teach, but the student is also providing a service to the school and teacher by teaching a class essentially for free. Of course, the student must reflect on these experiences in order to learn from them and ensure his/her progress through student teaching and, consequently, attaining teacher certification in order to do the same job for pay.

In composition, the way I see this working is that a student learns from the experience any number of objectives of their writing course, and the community gets the benefit of free labor. For this to work, the student would learn how to write for whatever group he/she decided to service and would learn composition skills that would help them in that field of their interest. Ideally, this scenario would involve somewhere the student might want to be employed in the future or at least in the same field of their interest or their major.

That said, I don't really see it as very important (in the context of English studies) whether or not the student felt like it was a good thing to help out in the community or if the student was
just doing it for a grade. With that said, I don't think any student should be made to do anything like this if they feel that it goes against their beliefs.
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Ben's response that answers most of the questions in a roundabout way.

Basically, Service Pedagogy means making students work with outside organizations in the community to develop texts of some sort that will help the organization help the community. In this way, students are applying learning to the real world, getting REAL experience, and helping the community at the same time so that they have a more informed idea of what their writing accomplishes. The following is a jumbled mess in which I try to explain that a great pedagogy when used the right way, but it really apply to composition per say. I used the text as much as I could but the more I read I kept thinking of my own experiences in a class using this pedagogy, so I just kind of intertwined the two. Hopefully it sort of makes sense.

I honestly kind of like Service Pedagogy. pretty sure that the technical writing class I took with Dr. Etheridge 3 years ago followed the exact same model as the that Julier discusses. This is where my first issue comes in though. Julier is discussing using Service Pedagogy for a composition or basic writing class, whereas the class I took was much more specialized. Julier discusses the problems that she faced with using this pedagogy for the pilot class, such as the fact that it teach composition, it teaches technical writing. We had the exact same setup where the class broke into groups and worked with various agencies to develop writing that helped further their cause and therefore helped the community. I think we accomplished everything we set out to in our class, which was the same kind of thing Julier talks about: [ing] critical [and encouraging] students to join the academic conversation from a position of (141). As I said, the difference was that we supposed to learn about composition, we were supposed to learn about technical writing and how it functions in the real world, while making real things happen to better the community.

We also ran into a lot of the same kind of problems that Julier discusses, but I think mostly unavoidable. is to guarantee that the student will find this situation any more than the . Students in this course, for instance, could write brochures about STDs for the public health clinic without ever setting foot inside the clinic or without ever having to talk to any of the clients. We had a good deal of this kind of stuff, but kind of how life works out. There were plenty of us that ended up going and spending time in the colonias between Driscoll and Petronilla, or worked with - children (a term that sounds kind of funny in a city like Corpus) towards building a new athletic center to keep kids off the street, and I personally managed to get completely immersed in the A&M-CC Geographic Information Science program.

We also ran into problems working with certain outside groups. One group was completely willing to help the Corpus Beat do something or another, and the Corpus Beat people ended up being the shady/seedy/weirdoes that they always are, so the group made a web page for the Moody Trojan band.

Julier also states rhetoric of sending students into community may, in some settings and course designs, confirm for students an insider-outsider understanding of academic purposes, and replicate condescending models of charity and missionary work that do more to undermine than to advance the goals of multicultural education and social (143) This is a problem, but only going to affect the students that see things that way. Julier address it as a problem that we need to find a way to fix, just one of the drawbacks that comes with this pedagogy. I think that big of a problem.

What she states as the biggest problem, though, is something brought up in a lot of conversations on this pedagogy. characterizes these conversations on service learning in writing are, more than anything, the philosophical and ideological differences among (145). It takes a special kind of instructor to use this pedagogy effectively, and a complete commitment. You just decide going to make my students do community service. As an instructor you have to be in the community doing things, and you have to make contact with different organizations and basically be everything and everywhere. I mean for this to sound like the Mike Rose or Peter Elbow hero teacher, but it really is a lot of work.

As a student, community-service pedagogy can be extremely intimidating. Students want to go into the outside world and work with real organizations, they want to do their bookwork and assignments, and then have all their time out of school be their own time. Also, being told need to find an organization or choose one of these organizations and write a grant or brochure (etc.) that they will actually use and give to real seems to put a lot of pressure on an unsuspecting student. I found that once you actually start doing it, not nearly as much work or as scary as it sounds, but that initial shock is extremely intimidating.
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Deals directly with the issues you read, write, and research in class to better engage students. (132)
to preparing students adequately for their roles as (134)
motivates students with connections to learning (137)
gives students real audiences to write for and real purposes to write about (137)
in the community provides material for writing and for research, a site for testing claims and concepts from (141)
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1. Deals directly with the issues you read, write, and research in class to better engage students. (132)
2. to preparing students adequately for their roles as (134)
3. motivates students with connections to learning (137)
4. gives students real audiences to write for and real purposes to write about (137)
5. in the community provides material for writing and for research, a site for testing claims and concepts from (141)
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to take service learning seriously may indeed be a result from the fact that it does not locate itself in a discipline, the coin of the academic (135)
Is it a field or a social movement? (135) the lack of a well articulated conceptual
thinking of the English department as a for service learning, service learning has been by a disciplinary identity, and has for a number of years, moved freely within the academy, sometimes attaching itself to sociology or psychology, sometimes to education or social work. Because of its goals, social learning may sometimes make more sense in those fields instead of humanities. (136)
Some believe writing requirements are overlooked or not as critical as they should be.
Nothing to prevent the academic of if the student does not make a connection with the agency or purpose he is writing for (143)
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1. to take service learning seriously may indeed be a result from the fact that it does not locate itself in a discipline, the coin of the academic (135)
2. Is it a field or a social movement? (135) the lack of a well articulated conceptual
3. thinking of the English department as a for service learning, service learning has been by a disciplinary identity, and has for a number of years, moved freely within the academy, sometimes attaching itself to sociology or psychology, sometimes to education or social work. Because of its goals, social learning may sometimes make more sense in those fields instead of humanities. (136)
4. Some believe writing requirements are overlooked or not as critical as they should be.
5. Nothing to prevent the academic of if the student does not make a connection with the agency or purpose he is writing for (143)
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As with all the prior pedagogies Tate has covered, this one is workable, but it is not a perfect one-size-fits-all pedagogy. There is no such pedagogy because there is no such classroom of students. A good pedagogy recognizes the great variety of individuals that may make up a class, and a good teacher enacts a pedagogy and establishes a syllabus that accounts, as best as it can, for each of those individuals.
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As with all the prior pedagogies Tate has covered, this one is workable, but it is not a perfect one-size-fits-all pedagogy. There is no such pedagogy because there is no such classroom of students. A good pedagogy recognizes the great variety of individuals that may make up a class, and a good teacher enacts a pedagogy and establishes a syllabus that accounts, as best as it can, for each of those individuals.

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*'''Lorena'''

Service Learning


Deals directly with the issues you read, write, and research in class to better engage students. (132)
to preparing students adequately for their roles as (134)
motivates students with connections to learning (137)
gives students real audiences to write for and real purposes to write about (137)
in the community provides material for writing and for research, a site for testing claims and concepts from (141)



to take service learning seriously may indeed be a result from the fact that it does not locate itself in a discipline, the coin of the academic (135)
Is it a field or a social movement? (135) the lack of a well articulated conceptual
thinking of the English department as a for service learning, service learning has been by a disciplinary identity, and has for a number of years, moved freely within the academy, sometimes attaching itself to sociology or psychology, sometimes to education or social work. Because of its goals, social learning may sometimes make more sense in those fields instead of humanities. (136)
Some believe writing requirements are overlooked or not as critical as they should be.
Nothing to prevent the academic of if the student does not make a connection with the agency or purpose he is writing for (143)

These are the pros and cons as I saw them in this essay and I agree that service learning may have its benefits because of its connection with social change and community involvement, but that is only and opinion.

While service learning gives the writer an audience and a purpose, that same writer has to make a connection otherwise the writing will be because not all writers will make connections. Regardless of the purpose, the student has to want to write about it; otherwise they will write what they believe the teacher wants to hear.

In addition, the pilot program discussed in this essay mentions the agency determining the acceptability of the writing project, not the teacher. I agree with this because the agency decide if the writing is acceptable in the academic world; the agency can only decide if the writing fits their needs within the community. I believe the agency should determine if the project is appropriate for them, but the teacher should ultimately determine if the writing is up to the standard it should be for the class.

As mentioned in the essay, service learning necessarily fit into one category within the and therefore is not taken as seriously as it should be. very difficult to put a label on this pedagogy because it can easily belong to multiple areas (ex. education, social work, sociology, psychology). I can see how this could be viewed as negative, but I also believe service learning unites different academic areas and could lead to academic cooperation within these fields.

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March 02, 2009, at 04:56 PM CST by 198.211.223.140 -
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The biggest problem with this pedagogy is that students learn anything. This a class an internship. Yes, students learn about the various groups their helping and other such non-English related information. But they learn about English studies. As Holly pointed out, pretty much anyone in any discipline can do the same thing as these students are doing. Heck, any layman can do these things. The the point of a composition class!
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The biggest problem with this pedagogy is that students learn anything. This a class an internship. Yes, students learn about the various groups they're helping and other such non-English related information. But they learn about English studies. As Holly pointed out, pretty much anyone in any discipline can do the same thing as these students are doing. Heck, any layman can do these things. The the point of a composition class!
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Another question: is this really only charity? I don't really see it as such. I see it kind of in the same light as pre-service teaching or student teaching. It is a kind of symbiotic relationship between the service-provider (student) and service-recipient (institution or school). The student learns from the experience any number of objectives of their writing course, and the community gets the benefit of free labor. That said, I don't really see it as very important (in the context of English studies) whether or not the student feels like it is a good thing to help out in the community or if the student is just doing it for a grade. With that said, I don't think any student should be made to do anything like this if it goes against their beliefs.
to:
Another question: is this really only charity? I don't really see it as such. I see it kind of in the same light as pre-service teaching or student teaching. It is a kind of symbiotic relationship between the service-provider (student) and service-recipient (institution or school). The student learns from the experience any number of objectives of their writing course, and the community gets the benefit of free labor. That said, I don't really see it as very important (in the context of English studies) whether or not the student feels like it is a good thing to help out in the community or if the student is just doing it for a grade. With that said, I don't think any student should be made to do anything like this if they feel that it goes against their beliefs.
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I think this pedagogy could work within a syllabus as a choice given to students. If a student is interested in working within the community and agrees with the recipient's ethics/morals, then this could be good for a particular student. In school, we have to be very careful of student's rights (so unlike the real world where people often end up doing things that they do not believe in or think are may even think are wrong just to make ends meet - or, in the case of some amoral rich people, just to stay wealthy), so this is definitely a kind of pedagogy to be used based on student interest.
to:
I think this pedagogy could work within a syllabus as a choice given to students. If a student is interested in working within the community and agrees with the recipient's ethics/morals, then this could be good for a particular student. In school, we have to be very careful of student's rights (so unlike the real world where people often end up doing things that they do not believe in or may even think are wrong just to make ends meet - or, in the case of some amoral rich people, just to stay wealthy), so this is definitely a kind of pedagogy to be used based on student interest.
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On the pro side of things, service pedagogy has the potential of killing two birds with one stone. If done right, it can both provide students with an opportunity to think critically and write reflectively for ''and'' about some community groups, issues and practices that are directly relevant within their community ''and'' help in getting things done in that community. That is the main thing I see going for it.

On the con side of things, I don't think I need to do much more than cite John's response and say that I agree with many aspects of it. I don't know that I would go so far as to say that charity is the opposite of social justice because I can see many good reasons for charity in society.

However, I do not agree that people should be made to give to charity or engage in charity. I do not think that the Have-nots are ''entitled'' to the things that the Haves have earned through hard work or ingenuity, but I also think that if a person has grace and compassion, they will not resent giving away some of their earnings to help those in true need.

We come to the big question then. Is ethical/moral education the job of English studies? I don't think that it is really. I mean there are other classes that exist to deal with this - one which is a required undergrad course, Professional Ethics. Also, there are many other ways by which people attain their ethics and morals.

Another question: is this really only charity? I don't really see it as such. I see it kind of in the same light as pre-service teaching or student teaching. It is a kind of symbiotic relationship between the service-provider (student) and service-recipient (institution or school). The student learns from the experience any number of objectives of their writing course, and the community gets the benefit of free labor. That said, I don't really see it as very important (in the context of English studies) whether or not the student feels like it is a good thing to help out in the community or if the student is just doing it for a grade. With that said, I don't think any student should be made to do anything like this if it goes against their beliefs.

In practice, then, this pedagogy might most wisely be used with a great deal of flexibility and student choice.

So, how could this pedagogy be made to work?

I think this pedagogy could work within a syllabus as a choice given to students. If a student is interested in working within the community and agrees with the recipient's ethics/morals, then this could be good for a particular student. In school, we have to be very careful of student's rights (so unlike the real world where people often end up doing things that they do not believe in or think are may even think are wrong just to make ends meet - or, in the case of some amoral rich people, just to stay wealthy), so this is definitely a kind of pedagogy to be used based on student interest.

There are many different pedagogies to choose from, a variety seemingly corresponding to the variety of students a teacher might encounter over the course of his/her career, and I think the ideal syllabus would offer assignments that reflect the variety of students and pedagogies. That is what student-centered learning is all about. The only agenda a composition teacher really needs to have is for his/her students to write better, and this can be achieved any number of ways by having high standards for things like critical thinking and form as well as substance but also providing students with choices in how they meet those standards.

As with all the prior pedagogies Tate has covered, this one is workable, but it is not a perfect one-size-fits-all pedagogy. There is no such pedagogy because there is no such classroom of students. A good pedagogy recognizes the great variety of individuals that may make up a class, and a good teacher enacts a pedagogy and establishes a syllabus that accounts, as best as it can, for each of those individuals.
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'''James'''
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'''Darcy L. - Answer'''

To a degree, I do agree with John. It is my pet peeve when instructors push a political or ideological agenda on their students, which I think is the slippery slope of service learning pedagogy, critical pedagogy, and some of the others. I think the problem inherent in composition studies is that there is a lack of definition and focus overall (this is similar to the argument that Anne Ruggles Gere made in this week's reading). Without defining ''''''why'''''' we are teaching composition, what the goal of it is, it leaves the field open for all sorts of variant and contradictory practices. Sometimes, this is a good thing and can lead to evolutionary developments. But the flip side of this is that some very bad practices can be put into place and even adopted as standard. Julier addresses this, also, calling it the "prior question" that 'we as a profession have not sufficiently addressed: what is the purpose of a writing course?'

I do think that anything that helps students think critically is a good thing. These students need to shake the dust off their received belief systems and put them to the test. Then again, I am ambivalent about whether or not that belongs in the writing classroom. Yes, critical thinking gives students something to say, helps them analyze texts, and gives them connections between thought and language. But if that's all the class focuses on, then the student might leave without being able to translate that into 'good writing.'
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'''John L. - Answer'''

I am not exaggerating when I say that Laura Julier and her community-service pedagogy are the worst things in the history of English studies (and perhaps more than that). Some worry that this discipline will not be taken seriously. Why should it? What do students learn from this, other than a fuzzy principle that good to help other people? Is this something they had to take ENGL 1301 to learn?

With no disrespect to Darcy, there are no pros to this pedagogy. Teachers necessarily impose value judgments when they determine what counts as community service. For example, students may object to helping the Girl Scouts (as was referenced on p. 138) for their stand against gay rights. Why should students have to assist in causes they believe in to get a grade? And there is no cause everyone believes in. Social justice means different things to different people. I believe that charity is the opposite of justice. Most (wrongly) disagree.

The purpose of English studies is not to provide social justice. Some people use English studies to help promote their vision of English studies, by technically editing STD flyers, promoting soup kitchens, or assisting literacy programs. But that is not the goal of the discipline (I hope, at least). The excuse that it gives students experience as opposed to other composition classes is insulting, as it implies that the rest of English studies provide real world experience.

The biggest problem with this pedagogy is that students learn anything. This a class an internship. Yes, students learn about the various groups their helping and other such non-English related information. But they learn about English studies. As Holly pointed out, pretty much anyone in any discipline can do the same thing as these students are doing. Heck, any layman can do these things. The the point of a composition class!
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'''Holly C. - Answer'''

It seems that the previous question-- are the pros and cons of service , answered this question more specifically. However, since it is here, I will try to answer it. It seems that, overall, Julier does advocate service learning in her article and does feel like it is a good idea. However, she does tend to present both the positive and negative aspects of the concept.

On the positive end of the spectrum, service learning does give composition students application and purpose for their writing. They are not writing into a bubble or to some . that exists outside of the scope of the classroom. Instead, they can actually see the fruits of their efforts in the concrete results they produce for their clients. Students may receive a certain measure of validation and purpose from doing the work, so, in that respect, service learning is a good idea. Also, since we are now in a time when many students need to determine whether or not what they are doing has some practical application, it does seem as if service learning would be a very good idea.

Service learning is also a good idea because it can help to remove students from the of traditional composition writing. Instead of students just writing papers that only the teacher reads, they are writing many different types of writing for many different audiences. Going back to the discussion of collaborative pedagogy, this seems to go hand in hand. Students are definitely having to work with many different people and also with many different formats when they do service learning. Even if the student does not have to ever set foot into the place their writing is benefitting, that student is having to collaborate with their intended audience and also with the organization or in need of the writing. Service learning projects are also opportunities for students to work in groups with other students because, at least in the experience I had with service learning, there was enough work that the professor had more than one person work on the same project. Service learning is also a good idea because it has the potential of placing students in the position of having to leave the safety of the classroom in order to do this collaboration.

Service learning does, however, have the potential of being a bad idea. For starters, even though a student is working towards the greater good, they are also trying to earn their grade, and they know this. As Julier said in her article, students sometimes got bogged down in the mechanics and conventions of the project instead of in the potential reward of the work. Ultimately, most students might and probably are only undertaking the work because it has a grade attached to it.

Critics of service learning also are concerned that it does not have the same academic rigor as other classes. This is attributed to the fact that it does not have a large amount of theories behind it and also because service learning does not have to locate itself in any specific academic realm. Any subject can undertake some type of service learning. An accounting class could do service learning just as easily as a math class or history class could.
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*'''Darcy L.'''
**%purple%'''Pros:'''
***The curriculum is aimed at democracy and social justice.
****''The emphasis is on making students better citizens and more aware of institutional injustices (or injustices in general). By either engaging in or writing for community service, the students can engage in meaningful discussions in class (as opposed to literary texts that they feel are arbitrary and that they don't connect with). Also, this can help foster critical thinking by stretching students outside their comfort zones and getting them to do and think about things in new ways.''
***Students work toward deadlines and for purposes that are not 'teacher imposed.'
****''Rather than writing for the sole purpose of a grade or writing for the audience of only the teacher, the students work toward writing for a "real world" purpose and learn about how to write contextually for a particular audience.''
***Expands students' experiences beyond writing solely for academia.
****''The students get exposed to more than just the 5 paragraph essay and grammar. As Julier writes, this 'gives students a way to confront and find language for both the differences among people and the common ground that enables them to work together.'''
****''This 'demonstrates to [students] the enormous variety in written discourse and the degree to which the forms, processes, and purposes of writing are embedded in particular contexts.'-Nora Bacon''
**%color=#ff7f00% '''Cons:'''%%
***May feed into the "iconic teacher" and "iconic student" models.
****''This may set up a hierarchical structure where 'those serving' and 'those being served' are put in separate and unequal categories. This 'may confirm for students an insider-outsider understanding of academic purposes and replicate condescending models of charity and missionary work that do more to undermine than to advance the goals of multicultural education and social transformation.'''
***Writing for an organization with political or ideological assumptions may put a student in an awkward position.
****''This may force a student to take up a position that he or she does not subscribe to, which undermines the entire purpose of a democratic and socially just classroom.''
***May not be taken seriously within academia.
****''While this is community-oriented and serving a 'greater good,' it might not necessarily be seen as teaching writing, which is allegedly the purpose of the course in the first place. The work done in the class might not be seen as 'academic' enough and might not prepare a student for further academic work.''

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